Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login
Napoleon Bonaparte by AAtheist Napoleon Bonaparte by AAtheist
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi…

If you like this kind of thing please take a look at my facebook page at www.facebook.com/fightforreaso…
Add a Comment:
 
:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2016  Student Writer
It says a lot for the argument of atheists that you're willing to use the word of a sociopath as evidence of why religion is evil.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2016
Bad people do occasionally manage to say sensible things. For example, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Joseph Goebbels 

And while there are many aspects of Napoleon that were cruel and not widely known, this is the first time I've heard him called a sociopath.
Reply
:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2016  Student Writer
He objection to religion was in no way moral, simply that they undermined his autocratic rule. To quiet it he actually captured Rome and one of the Popes died under his care.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2016
That doesn't make him a sociopath and doesn't answer my point about bad people occasionally saying true things. His objection may not have been about morality, but it is still very relevant. Just take a look at the Christian megachurches in America. I'm fairly certain that if Jesus ever did exist he would be disgusted by such hypocrisy.
Reply
:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2016  Student Writer
What in God's Name do megachurches have to do with the rest of Christianity? And furthermore, that has nothing to do with this quote. He was complaining about priest objecting to his totalitarian dictatorial regime. 
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2016
Take another look at the quote and maybe you'll see the context "I am surrounded by priests that insist that their kingdom is not of this world and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get".

He may not have liked priests because they challenged his power, but the actual quote is pointing out how priests who supposedly don't need worldly wealth non the less do everything within their power to get it. He is pointing out their hypocrisy. 

If you don't like megachurches in this context, that's fine we can simply use the Vatican instead.

"The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone." (source Avro Manhattan, the Vatican billions)

And that's not even the largest part of the Vatican's wealth. They have stocks of gold bullion estimated to be worth several billion dollars. They are considered to be the wealthiest institution on the face of the planet.

Considering that the Catholic church is supposed to follow Jesus almost directly I wonder how he would have reacted to the biggest authority of Gods word also being one of the wealthiest banks in the world when compared to their actual bank account holders. It has something in the region of just 33.500 accounts and yet has assets worth about 8 billion dollars.

I wonder if this might have any bearing on whether this should be called hypocrisy. biblehub.com/matthew/21-12.htm
Reply
:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2016  Student Writer
Again, as it was being said by a sociopath I don't put a whole lot stock in anything he said.

For one thing, Avro Manhattan was a party to the super-fundamentalist CHick publications so I'm more than a little bit leery about the legitimacy of anything he's written. Also, in his bibliography of Vatican Billions he failed to give any real citations to the source of those figures, so I am under no bond to treat it as a legitimate source whatsoever.

Again, you don't have any citations to prove this claim. Yes the Church has a lot of many and value, but most of the gold and treasure as i have observed in is painting and arts and relics which can't really be sold. Furthermore, most of that money in my findings, is given to the Church's missions of evangelization and helping the needy.

The Institute for the Works of Religion (or more commonly, the Vatican Bank) is for the purpose of funding religious missions, but most bank activities are run by lay people. Any corruption or business functions cannot be laid at the feet of the Church.

It's not hypocrisy because the Church does not do things to the end of making a profit but to the end of serving their mission as given by Our Lord.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2016
Again you claim he was a sociopath without any evidence. What's more you are dismissing something he said simply because you don't like the person who said it. This is pure Argumentum Ad Hominem, as I'm sure you are aware this is nothing more than a logical fallacy and should have no bearing on the validity of an observation, so long as the observation is not related to the particular failing of the person being discussed. So for example, if I was saying, "I know its true because he tells me so."  You could follow on with, "He is a proven liar, here are citations to prove it..." And this would not be Argumentum Ad Hominem, however saying that Napoleons observations about priests are incorrect because he is a sociopath is nothing more than fallacy.

As for the churches wealth, are you really trying to tell me that the Vatican is not without a doubt one of the richest institutions in the world? Really? Pull the other one, its got bells on. There are no sources that will tell you that the Vatican is poor. They simply don't exist. Why? Because it isn't, the whole idea is patently absurd.

How about the Economist? Is that a reliable source for you? In 2012 they did an investigation into the American Catholic church and found an annual expenditure of 170 billion USD of which catholic charities got less that 11 billion. www.economist.com/blogs/newsbo…

In comparison Apple had a worldwide revenue of 150 billion during 2012.

Hell they are so rich that in 2014 Cardinal George Pell, the Vatican's economy minister said he found "some hundreds of millions of euros were tucked away in particular sectional accounts and did not appear on the balance sheet." Meaning they found hundreds of millions of euros they didn't even realise they had.

I never at any point mentioned corruption in the Vatican bank, I'm glad you're aware it exists though.

As for the churches holy mission, in the 1960's Italian media discovered that the Catholic church was directly invested in entities that were in conflict with the churches "holy mission" up to and including Udine, a military weapons manufacturer. Hell they've even repeatedly been linked to Nazi gold. There is a link below.

 books.google.com.vn/books?id=E…
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconbacxaber:
Bacxaber Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2015   General Artist
A bit of an ironic statement coming from a conqueror, but it checks out.
Reply
:iconvanakniunio:
Vanakniunio Featured By Owner May 22, 2015
Plundering everything is kind of in the job description for a conqueror. Priests, on the other hand, are generally supposed to be humble and virtuous, which the priests Bonaparte was speaking of obviously weren't.
Reply
:iconbacxaber:
Bacxaber Featured By Owner May 22, 2015   General Artist
Indeed.
Reply
:iconthe-last-sea-serpent:
And at the other end of the spectrum, as Martin Luther King Jr. pointed out on multiple occasions; you have clergy people who, when given the opportunity to make a positive difference in society, say that isn't the rightful place of the Church.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2014
Really? I might have to find that one.
Reply
:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2013  Student Filmographer
Preach on, you obese Parisian midget.
Reply
:iconthe-last-sea-serpent:
According to my AP European History teacher(without whom my senior year of High School would be unbeatable), Napoleon was actually around five-and-a-half feet. Everyone thought he was short because he surrounded himself with six-foot-plus bodyguards.
Reply
:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2014  Student Filmographer
Well, five foot five, in europe, is still remarkably tiny. Even for the first century, militarily speaking, five foot five would barely be the accepted minimum height for a Roman soldier ( the standard mandate being five foot seven) for the sake of traveling and fighting on horse back. For this and many reasons, the celts (or Keltoi) were Rome's favorite mercenaries and foreign recruits, their warrior class being closer to six feet than not. 
Reply
:iconthe-last-sea-serpent:
Okay, cool. Thanks for the info.
Reply
:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2014  Student Filmographer
The more you know, man. Peace.
Reply
:icontsubodai1:
Tsubodai1 Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2013
True. Many are like that. On the other hand, there are people like St. Francis of Assisi. Now there was a man who took his faith to heart, and did good things. Were they because of his faith? I guess we'll never know for sure. At any rate, just to say not everyone's a hypocrite (just most).
Reply
:icondeadcrowes:
deadcrowes Featured By Owner May 7, 2013
Know what's hilarious hypocracy? To idolize a man who deliberately lived in modest poverty, having given up the wealthy life of a merchant's son by market by selling crap like this:
[link]
Reply
:icontsubodai1:
Tsubodai1 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2014
Yes, but I don't think either of us is surprised. The catholic church has been oozing corruption for centuries, that's why protestant movements got off the ground.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner May 5, 2013
That is a fair and valid statement.
Reply
:iconkalika12:
kalika12 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Became my motto!!!:XD:
Reply
:iconarianod:
Arianod Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Big words, Nap. So tell me again, why didn't you axe those priests when you were emperor of all and everything, huh?
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013
He also said "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." He found it useful, he just didn't really believe it.
Reply
:iconarianod:
Arianod Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I know! ^^ I was just pointing out that, well, that makes him as much a hypocrite as the priests.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2013
LoL true :P
Reply
:iconmamalucia:
MamaLucia Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Obviously, what they mean is that OUR kingdom is in another world. THEIR kingdom is what they can steal in the here and now.! =P
Reply
:iconmagpie-poet:
magpie-poet Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2012
Sharp and to the point!
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2012
:D
Reply
:icontrickycreature:
TrickyCreature Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
In this case I agree with the little Corsian guy.
Reply
:iconcurtsibling:
curtsibling Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Yep - The pope lives in grotesque levels of luxury, while telling everyone to reject materialism...

Pontiff, practice what you preach...
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2012
GIVE TO THE POOR...while I sit on my golden throne, holding my golden cross...
Reply
:iconcurtsibling:
curtsibling Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Indeed - The kind of hypocrisy that should shame them if they were truly "holy men..."
Reply
:iconmephistophilez:
Mephistophilez Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012   Traditional Artist
haha, so true. Funny how nothing has changed.
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012
Hilarious. Gotta love the pope who preaches charity, yet owns a golden throne.
Reply
:iconmephistophilez:
Mephistophilez Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012   Traditional Artist
haha, yeah and now his own perfume :lol:
Reply
:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012
Is very telling, non?
Reply
:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012
Just a lot.
Reply
Add a Comment:
 
×
  • Photo
  • Art Gifts
Download JPG 1286 × 1025




Details

Submitted on
July 9, 2012
Image Size
402 KB
Resolution
1286×1025
Link
Thumb
Embed

Stats

Views
2,296
Favourites
52 (who?)
Comments
41
Downloads
24

License

Creative Commons License
Some rights reserved. This work is licensed under a
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.
×